Chapter 2 - This chapter as Jesus as Judge I stopped and read twice. It was not what I expected! To think of Jesus as judge inspiring neighborly love and care and humility was beautiful to me. Instead of approaching this chapter in a dualistic, black and white framework (heaven/hell, Christian/non-Christian) the concepts are humility, seeing the image of God in every person we encounter and thus loving them. I am still thinking about this as it alters my lense of how I see Jesus!
I really struggle with seeing fear as a gift. Jesus' wounds meant to promote a fear of "what have we done" and a "self-preserving violence of indifference and callous selfishness" is entirely sobering. To honour my questions- I don't know what I think yet!
To clarify I think that the theology of total depravity (which I have lived under in church life and don't think I believe anymore) has affected how I read this.
Pamela, that makes so much sense. I want to say first that I love honoring your questions and saying I don't know what I think... I think we would all be much better off saying that freely about ourselves, and it's something that I'm becoming more comfortable with myself. And I love your phrase of Jesus as patience and kindness in this process!
I did not grow up with a doctrine of total depravity, so it all feels different for me, but I can absolutely see how that would intensely affect your thought processes about judgment. For me, the gift of this chapter has been in not thinking of judgment and mercy as opposites, but as absolutely united in Christ's body... I have no idea what that means in the long run, but it's a huge source of comfort and even joy to me when the world is so disastrous and I seek repentance and peace in my own heart. The Petrus Christus painting has been a source of prolonged meditation for me in that journey.
I am behind in reading and commenting, but I am going to anyway, because I love the book so much!
Chapter 1 - I am in the midst of a questioning time in my faith after being faithful to my non-demoninational, evangelical, charismatic, somewhat fundamental church for 18 years. Jesus is patience and kindness to me right now as I learn patience and kindness toward myself.
I tend to shy away from surprise, but this book has surprised me! I thought I would not be able to connect with some of the concepts, for example, Jesus as Judge and Dr. Grace Hamman has surprised me with her ideas and writing. I read that chapter twice because I needed to grasp what she was saying! I have been surprised by my own words as I process learning questioning my faith, even using poetry as a way to process.
Grace: I'm loving the book so far. You've struck a terrific balance between academic "meatiness" and accessibility for non-specialist readers. Well done!
Chapter 1: The identity of Jesus is complex, and reading alongside the voices of the past is a wise strategy for seeing the broader picture. Grace, you make a great case for doing just that. In addition, I lift up the power of pilgrimage to do this as well (which also puts us in conversation with the past). My trips to the Holy Lands helped me overcome a tendency to over-emphasize the Divine nature of Christ. Too often I missed his humanity, which is equally important. Walking those dusty roads reminds me that my Savior knew what it was like to sweat, bleed, sneeze, and delight in the beauty of nature. It's a 3D person who can understand my struggles with true clarity.
Chapter 2: Judge. One thing I've always appreciated about our Lutheran tradition is the emphasis of understanding the Gospel through the lens of Law and Gospel. The Law (aided by our Judge Jesus) exposes our failings. It is the diagnosis of our sinful condition. If this is all it does, despair follows, because we have no cure. Fortunately, the Law (and our Judge) drives us to the Gospel, which is our cure. In Jesus we have our solution and our salvation. The Gospel without the Law is mere license to do whatever you want, with no consequence. Law and Gospel must be held in proper tension.
I have also found helpful a saying of St. Silouan the Athonite, an early 20th century saint in the Orthodox tradition. He was beset by pride. Christ's counsel to him was "Keep thy mind in Hell and despair not." It's another, more direct way of reminding us to be mindful of our brokenness, but never to despair - run to Christ for healing.
Scott, thank you for your complimentary words. Also, I think your comment about pilgrimage is deeply appropriate given how much medieval people practiced that particular spiritual discipline! A new/old place can be just as helpful as a new/old time in reexamining preconceived ideas.
I love how you connect the medieval images and thoughts to dialogue with your Lutheran tradition, too. I think that's the piece of the puzzle about humble & engaged reading that is often the most difficult--letting it become a conversation!
Mmm, wrote this before reading the other comments to avoid any plagiarism - I might still be suffering from verbosity from when I was paid by the word!
Who is Jesus to me?
Well there's the usual answers: God, King, Saviour, Friend. Some of these might be inspired from listening to the podcast that became this book!
My education was quite intellectual and didn't place much weight on feelings (perhaps I should have listened more in English Literature!). There's also what I half jokingly refer to as the Protestant Work ethic - the value of busyness. So the emphasis tends towards the formal roles.
My small group was looking at Lectio Devina last week and I realised I've always struggled with the contemplation stage. I feel I must be doing something, whether that's wrestling with the meaning or application of a passage or activity asking for something in prayer. But I'm at risk of skipping ahead to my reaction to Chapter 3!
## The value of surprise
Surprise breaks through complacency. In this context (searching for the divine) maybe a leap of understanding. It might also be defined by its scarcity - when every reading is an astounding insight into the mind of the Almighty, it stops being surprising.
I don't think any culture likes surprises; human nature wants things to stay the same. Consider the wonderful conversation in The Truth by Terry Pratchett between the Patrician and Willian De Worde - the editor of Ankh-Morpork's first newspaper. The Patrician says people want to read what they already know. They don't want to hear "man bites dog" because they know dogs bite man.
Thinking with my (amateur) medievalist hat on also makes me consider that for most of history and places, surprises could be problematical. The unseasonably warm weather we've been having here in the UK is great, except for what it might be telling us about the climate.
I don't like surprises in the office either - even if they end up turning into successes - I prefer days when I know what I should be doing and am left to get on with it.
Church can often be the same. My Dad has often gently poked fun at free churches who, despite their insistence of not being beholden to any liturgy structre their services the same way every week.
But in storytelling - I love surprises. The more you read, the more you appreciate it when an author takes you by surprise. One of my daughters read Wolf by Wolf at school and it has two wonderful twists!
I had a encouraging medieval surprise a couple of months back. Being in unusual possession of a free day and the car, I went over to my alma mater in Canterbury to visit the library after 20 years. The history section was closed so I wandered over to the theology section and found a whole section of books about medieval spirituality.
I picked up a copy of the 'Medieval Popular Religion" reader and (somewhat at random) read an extract from The Pilgrimage of Human Life by Guillaume de Deguileville. In his vision of heaven he meets the personification of Grace who tells him "you cannot pass through [to heaven] without me". We hear so much negativity about the medieval church claiming it was all about salvation through works and here was a beautiful vision of the complete reverse!
I've found one problem of being in the church for a long time is trying to recapture how surprising Jesus was in First Century Jerusalem. I think the way he threatens the status quo in the eyes of the religious leaders says it all.
Perhaps surprise is an essential part of deep spirituality because it reveals a humility of being open to new ideas. The next thought that arrives is of Jesus being surprised by the Centurion's faith in Luke 7, well my NRSV translation says amazed but the Good News says "surprised".
On deeper reflection, I've come across several examples recently of God using unlikely people. The book we're using in our small group How to Eat Bread comments that Jesus' discussion with the Samaritan woman at the well John 4 7-15 is the longest theological discussion Jesus has with anyone, our pastor preached on Jonah and way the sailors worship God, presumably for the first time ever.
So the (long overdue) conclusion would be that God continues to use surprising people to further His work. How should that shape my view of other people? Anyone, no matter how unlikely, might lead me deeper into my understanding of God and the world.
I hope the long response shows I'm really enjoying the book!
Tim, your thoughts about surprise are spot on. There's this prewritten script that most adults have that they just aren't interested in deviating from... I LOVE your example of Deguileville! That is such an interesting, weird medieval book, I read it in graduate school. And I also love your point about God using surprising people. The addendum to "unlikely" with "surprising" is lovely... reminds me of a birthday present. Thank you for your thoughts, I'm so glad you're enjoying.
Your passages on being neighborly hit home. It reminded me of a conversation I had with my dad about his work as a psychologist. He’s clocked something like 40,000 hours of therapy over the years and has a strong reputation in the business. I asked him how he has been able to help so many people and he said “Because I look for Jesus in each one of them, no matter how hidden. I can help my patients because I love them.” It was such a beautiful thing to say. I feel inspired by those words to meet Jesus in this way too, by loving others despite their flaws. This of course can be a real struggle for me.
Wow, I loved this. And I also want to thank you for the meditation and practices at the end, they were so meaningful for me.
I have always struggled to capture the right idea of the fear of God. Awe and respect don't capture the idea of fear fully, but to be afraid of God didn't feel right from what the Bible teaches me of His character. So I loved how you brought out the nuances of fearing Jesus the Judge as bringing humility and working out justice towards others.
I didn't expect this view of Jesus the Judge from medieval Christianity for sure.
I have to admit that currently I don't really know how I see Jesus. I have been a Christian since 12 years old (now 30) and grew up in a Christian home. I worked in Christian ministry for most of my 20's and a few years ago burnt out in a big way.
I decided to be part of this reading group because I have really loved your substack and I am hoping that this book will help rekindle my love for Jesus and help me as I try to find my faith again.
I have to say that the first chapter was a joy to read! This is something I have felt for a long time about engaging with history but I haven't really dug into medieval Christianity because I have been firmly entrenched in reformed evangelicalism so the only church history I had engaged with before was the early church and the reformation.
So looking forward to reading more and getting stuck in.
Grace, these first chapters were SUCH a breath of fresh air to read! My conception of who Jesus is has changed so much over the years. I didn't grow up going to church, and a lot of my conception of him was based on the predominant church cultures & theologies I saw around me. I'm sure that I wasn't correctly perceiving a lot of what I thought I saw & heard, but I do feel like a gospel of prosperity had infiltrated a lot of religious talk. There were lots of quick idioms that felt like bumper stickers, so for years, I had been really skeptical - but once I finally started to search deeper and farther, especially through the annals of Church theologians, I realized there was a comforting depth and mystery so far beyond my understanding and outweighing all of those quick-fix bumper sticker statements. My focus on who Jesus really is came to rest in his incarnational, sacramental nature - God among us, with us, in flesh and blood...incarnate mystery. It makes me want to take my shoes off before the burning bush...and I have all these ancient writers to thank for helping me to see that!
I'm always surprised by reading old books - surprised by different ways of looking at familiar questions, and also surprised by how incredibly similar outlooks and problems and thinking can be across the ages, too!
Ch. 2
The DOOM. Oh gosh this was a fun chapter - I love doom paintings, and you brought forth so many fascinating threads. I was reminded of the doom painting in "Narcissus & Goldmund" by Herman Hesse. That imagery asks us to see Christ in a fuller way - to step outside of our temporal limitations and consider his eternal impact, forwards & backwards, and how that ripples through our own actions and responsibilities.
Your reflections on the Medieval notion of fear were so helpful to me. Especially the comparison of fear vs. awe as being like a living T-Rex vs. a skeleton! Yes!!
I have not read Narcissus & Goldmund... adding to my list! I love the way you describe your incarnational understanding of Jesus.
I'm glad the meditations on fear were helpful to you. They were so helpful for me to write--I needed to figure out what I thought about it through writing.
I spent some time thinking about my faith formation, and I can say that I didn't find Jesus in childhood catechism. It came from sincerely seeking Him over the course of my life in prayer, study, and practice. A person doesn't always feel drawn to Mass, but obedience and humility fosters sincerity.
On reading carefully and with discipline: A theologian I read mentioned that our approach to Sacred Scripture should be as if we are reading it for the first time, so that we embrace the fullness and accept it openly. This is reading like a child (p.15), precisely as we should be childlike in our faith!
That C.S. Lewis quote from the Introduction to St. Athanasius has been so formative for me over many years. When I first read it, I felt as though a light had gone on in my head!
Chapter 2 - This chapter as Jesus as Judge I stopped and read twice. It was not what I expected! To think of Jesus as judge inspiring neighborly love and care and humility was beautiful to me. Instead of approaching this chapter in a dualistic, black and white framework (heaven/hell, Christian/non-Christian) the concepts are humility, seeing the image of God in every person we encounter and thus loving them. I am still thinking about this as it alters my lense of how I see Jesus!
I really struggle with seeing fear as a gift. Jesus' wounds meant to promote a fear of "what have we done" and a "self-preserving violence of indifference and callous selfishness" is entirely sobering. To honour my questions- I don't know what I think yet!
To clarify I think that the theology of total depravity (which I have lived under in church life and don't think I believe anymore) has affected how I read this.
Pamela, that makes so much sense. I want to say first that I love honoring your questions and saying I don't know what I think... I think we would all be much better off saying that freely about ourselves, and it's something that I'm becoming more comfortable with myself. And I love your phrase of Jesus as patience and kindness in this process!
I did not grow up with a doctrine of total depravity, so it all feels different for me, but I can absolutely see how that would intensely affect your thought processes about judgment. For me, the gift of this chapter has been in not thinking of judgment and mercy as opposites, but as absolutely united in Christ's body... I have no idea what that means in the long run, but it's a huge source of comfort and even joy to me when the world is so disastrous and I seek repentance and peace in my own heart. The Petrus Christus painting has been a source of prolonged meditation for me in that journey.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. There is a lot to ponder on this topic and a lot that I am wrestling with!
I am behind in reading and commenting, but I am going to anyway, because I love the book so much!
Chapter 1 - I am in the midst of a questioning time in my faith after being faithful to my non-demoninational, evangelical, charismatic, somewhat fundamental church for 18 years. Jesus is patience and kindness to me right now as I learn patience and kindness toward myself.
I tend to shy away from surprise, but this book has surprised me! I thought I would not be able to connect with some of the concepts, for example, Jesus as Judge and Dr. Grace Hamman has surprised me with her ideas and writing. I read that chapter twice because I needed to grasp what she was saying! I have been surprised by my own words as I process learning questioning my faith, even using poetry as a way to process.
Grace: I'm loving the book so far. You've struck a terrific balance between academic "meatiness" and accessibility for non-specialist readers. Well done!
Chapter 1: The identity of Jesus is complex, and reading alongside the voices of the past is a wise strategy for seeing the broader picture. Grace, you make a great case for doing just that. In addition, I lift up the power of pilgrimage to do this as well (which also puts us in conversation with the past). My trips to the Holy Lands helped me overcome a tendency to over-emphasize the Divine nature of Christ. Too often I missed his humanity, which is equally important. Walking those dusty roads reminds me that my Savior knew what it was like to sweat, bleed, sneeze, and delight in the beauty of nature. It's a 3D person who can understand my struggles with true clarity.
Chapter 2: Judge. One thing I've always appreciated about our Lutheran tradition is the emphasis of understanding the Gospel through the lens of Law and Gospel. The Law (aided by our Judge Jesus) exposes our failings. It is the diagnosis of our sinful condition. If this is all it does, despair follows, because we have no cure. Fortunately, the Law (and our Judge) drives us to the Gospel, which is our cure. In Jesus we have our solution and our salvation. The Gospel without the Law is mere license to do whatever you want, with no consequence. Law and Gospel must be held in proper tension.
I have also found helpful a saying of St. Silouan the Athonite, an early 20th century saint in the Orthodox tradition. He was beset by pride. Christ's counsel to him was "Keep thy mind in Hell and despair not." It's another, more direct way of reminding us to be mindful of our brokenness, but never to despair - run to Christ for healing.
Scott, thank you for your complimentary words. Also, I think your comment about pilgrimage is deeply appropriate given how much medieval people practiced that particular spiritual discipline! A new/old place can be just as helpful as a new/old time in reexamining preconceived ideas.
I love how you connect the medieval images and thoughts to dialogue with your Lutheran tradition, too. I think that's the piece of the puzzle about humble & engaged reading that is often the most difficult--letting it become a conversation!
Mmm, wrote this before reading the other comments to avoid any plagiarism - I might still be suffering from verbosity from when I was paid by the word!
Who is Jesus to me?
Well there's the usual answers: God, King, Saviour, Friend. Some of these might be inspired from listening to the podcast that became this book!
My education was quite intellectual and didn't place much weight on feelings (perhaps I should have listened more in English Literature!). There's also what I half jokingly refer to as the Protestant Work ethic - the value of busyness. So the emphasis tends towards the formal roles.
My small group was looking at Lectio Devina last week and I realised I've always struggled with the contemplation stage. I feel I must be doing something, whether that's wrestling with the meaning or application of a passage or activity asking for something in prayer. But I'm at risk of skipping ahead to my reaction to Chapter 3!
## The value of surprise
Surprise breaks through complacency. In this context (searching for the divine) maybe a leap of understanding. It might also be defined by its scarcity - when every reading is an astounding insight into the mind of the Almighty, it stops being surprising.
I don't think any culture likes surprises; human nature wants things to stay the same. Consider the wonderful conversation in The Truth by Terry Pratchett between the Patrician and Willian De Worde - the editor of Ankh-Morpork's first newspaper. The Patrician says people want to read what they already know. They don't want to hear "man bites dog" because they know dogs bite man.
Thinking with my (amateur) medievalist hat on also makes me consider that for most of history and places, surprises could be problematical. The unseasonably warm weather we've been having here in the UK is great, except for what it might be telling us about the climate.
I don't like surprises in the office either - even if they end up turning into successes - I prefer days when I know what I should be doing and am left to get on with it.
Church can often be the same. My Dad has often gently poked fun at free churches who, despite their insistence of not being beholden to any liturgy structre their services the same way every week.
But in storytelling - I love surprises. The more you read, the more you appreciate it when an author takes you by surprise. One of my daughters read Wolf by Wolf at school and it has two wonderful twists!
I had a encouraging medieval surprise a couple of months back. Being in unusual possession of a free day and the car, I went over to my alma mater in Canterbury to visit the library after 20 years. The history section was closed so I wandered over to the theology section and found a whole section of books about medieval spirituality.
I picked up a copy of the 'Medieval Popular Religion" reader and (somewhat at random) read an extract from The Pilgrimage of Human Life by Guillaume de Deguileville. In his vision of heaven he meets the personification of Grace who tells him "you cannot pass through [to heaven] without me". We hear so much negativity about the medieval church claiming it was all about salvation through works and here was a beautiful vision of the complete reverse!
I've found one problem of being in the church for a long time is trying to recapture how surprising Jesus was in First Century Jerusalem. I think the way he threatens the status quo in the eyes of the religious leaders says it all.
Perhaps surprise is an essential part of deep spirituality because it reveals a humility of being open to new ideas. The next thought that arrives is of Jesus being surprised by the Centurion's faith in Luke 7, well my NRSV translation says amazed but the Good News says "surprised".
On deeper reflection, I've come across several examples recently of God using unlikely people. The book we're using in our small group How to Eat Bread comments that Jesus' discussion with the Samaritan woman at the well John 4 7-15 is the longest theological discussion Jesus has with anyone, our pastor preached on Jonah and way the sailors worship God, presumably for the first time ever.
So the (long overdue) conclusion would be that God continues to use surprising people to further His work. How should that shape my view of other people? Anyone, no matter how unlikely, might lead me deeper into my understanding of God and the world.
I hope the long response shows I'm really enjoying the book!
Tim, your thoughts about surprise are spot on. There's this prewritten script that most adults have that they just aren't interested in deviating from... I LOVE your example of Deguileville! That is such an interesting, weird medieval book, I read it in graduate school. And I also love your point about God using surprising people. The addendum to "unlikely" with "surprising" is lovely... reminds me of a birthday present. Thank you for your thoughts, I'm so glad you're enjoying.
Your passages on being neighborly hit home. It reminded me of a conversation I had with my dad about his work as a psychologist. He’s clocked something like 40,000 hours of therapy over the years and has a strong reputation in the business. I asked him how he has been able to help so many people and he said “Because I look for Jesus in each one of them, no matter how hidden. I can help my patients because I love them.” It was such a beautiful thing to say. I feel inspired by those words to meet Jesus in this way too, by loving others despite their flaws. This of course can be a real struggle for me.
That is really beautiful! Thank you for sharing.
Chapter 2
Wow, I loved this. And I also want to thank you for the meditation and practices at the end, they were so meaningful for me.
I have always struggled to capture the right idea of the fear of God. Awe and respect don't capture the idea of fear fully, but to be afraid of God didn't feel right from what the Bible teaches me of His character. So I loved how you brought out the nuances of fearing Jesus the Judge as bringing humility and working out justice towards others.
I didn't expect this view of Jesus the Judge from medieval Christianity for sure.
I totally agree about awe/respect/fear.
I'm glad you're enjoying the meditations & practices, as well!
Chapter 1
I have to admit that currently I don't really know how I see Jesus. I have been a Christian since 12 years old (now 30) and grew up in a Christian home. I worked in Christian ministry for most of my 20's and a few years ago burnt out in a big way.
I decided to be part of this reading group because I have really loved your substack and I am hoping that this book will help rekindle my love for Jesus and help me as I try to find my faith again.
I have to say that the first chapter was a joy to read! This is something I have felt for a long time about engaging with history but I haven't really dug into medieval Christianity because I have been firmly entrenched in reformed evangelicalism so the only church history I had engaged with before was the early church and the reformation.
So looking forward to reading more and getting stuck in.
Laura, I'm so glad you're here and reading! Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Ch. 1
Grace, these first chapters were SUCH a breath of fresh air to read! My conception of who Jesus is has changed so much over the years. I didn't grow up going to church, and a lot of my conception of him was based on the predominant church cultures & theologies I saw around me. I'm sure that I wasn't correctly perceiving a lot of what I thought I saw & heard, but I do feel like a gospel of prosperity had infiltrated a lot of religious talk. There were lots of quick idioms that felt like bumper stickers, so for years, I had been really skeptical - but once I finally started to search deeper and farther, especially through the annals of Church theologians, I realized there was a comforting depth and mystery so far beyond my understanding and outweighing all of those quick-fix bumper sticker statements. My focus on who Jesus really is came to rest in his incarnational, sacramental nature - God among us, with us, in flesh and blood...incarnate mystery. It makes me want to take my shoes off before the burning bush...and I have all these ancient writers to thank for helping me to see that!
I'm always surprised by reading old books - surprised by different ways of looking at familiar questions, and also surprised by how incredibly similar outlooks and problems and thinking can be across the ages, too!
Ch. 2
The DOOM. Oh gosh this was a fun chapter - I love doom paintings, and you brought forth so many fascinating threads. I was reminded of the doom painting in "Narcissus & Goldmund" by Herman Hesse. That imagery asks us to see Christ in a fuller way - to step outside of our temporal limitations and consider his eternal impact, forwards & backwards, and how that ripples through our own actions and responsibilities.
Your reflections on the Medieval notion of fear were so helpful to me. Especially the comparison of fear vs. awe as being like a living T-Rex vs. a skeleton! Yes!!
I have not read Narcissus & Goldmund... adding to my list! I love the way you describe your incarnational understanding of Jesus.
I'm glad the meditations on fear were helpful to you. They were so helpful for me to write--I needed to figure out what I thought about it through writing.
I spent some time thinking about my faith formation, and I can say that I didn't find Jesus in childhood catechism. It came from sincerely seeking Him over the course of my life in prayer, study, and practice. A person doesn't always feel drawn to Mass, but obedience and humility fosters sincerity.
On reading carefully and with discipline: A theologian I read mentioned that our approach to Sacred Scripture should be as if we are reading it for the first time, so that we embrace the fullness and accept it openly. This is reading like a child (p.15), precisely as we should be childlike in our faith!
Chapter 1: Your comment and quote from C.S. Lewis (p.5) is inciteful: "the traditions and writings of the church of ages past are a gift". How true!
That C.S. Lewis quote from the Introduction to St. Athanasius has been so formative for me over many years. When I first read it, I felt as though a light had gone on in my head!